A Girl’s Right: No retreat, No surrender
I’m a 51kg, 31 year old girl. What am I supposed to do if a 200lbs man jumps out and flashes at me in an underpass or I get grabbed from behind?
Should I scream and hope that someone comes to my rescue or beg for mercy and hope that he doesn’t rape me? Perhaps I should get on my knees and hope that after he’s raped me in vaginally, anally and orally, got me pregnant, given me a venereal disease and torn my fanny to shreds, that he won’t slit my throat. Or do I fight back? And if I do fight back, how far do I go?
Most of the advice we get about self defence from the police and martial arts instructors is either plain wrong, counter intuitive, or downright stupid. The police are always keen to stress that we’re unlikely to be the victims of street crime, which is great to know, but not much comfort or help if you are! The only reason they say it is because it sounds better than saying that nearly every victim of violent crime has one thing in common: the police didn’t come to their rescue.
If I was about to be attacked, there would be no point me calling the police on my mobile phone because even if I got through, and the call wasn’t diverted to a call centre in India, they wouldn’t get to me before I was raped or before he came inside me. By the time they arrive, they would be no help to me.
If we think we’re about to be attacked, we’ve got three choices: retreat, surrender or fight. Running away sounds great to me but you’ve got to have somewhere to run to and be confident you can out run your attacker. Trying to talk your way out of an attack is great in theory but how likely is that? You might be able to talk your way out of a fight with another girl, but a rapist isn’t going to stop raping you because you ask him nicely, and I wouldn’t place much faith in a mugger or carjacker not hurting me if I give them my purse or car – I’d much rather reach for a weapon, than try and second guess an attacker’s intentions because people who fight back have a much better chance of comming out of an attack unhurt.
But what really annoys me, is the idiot martial arts instructors, who tell us that size doesn’t matter and that we ought to try and use arm locks, wrist locks or finger locks on men twice our size. The right to defend ourselves against unlawful violence is an absolute, and it includes preemption and lethal force. A citizen’s right to self defence is no different from a police officers, if it’s legal for a police officer to shoot in self defence, it’s legal for you or I. In Italy there is a duty on the criminal to actively surrender. Although wording changes from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, if you live in an EU state or North America, everyone who is attacked has the right to use reasonable force to end that attack. The idea that that force has to be minimal is complete nonsense and dangerous.
A good example of that is kicking somebody on the ground: stamping or kicking someone in the head when they are on the floor is legally no different to punching or kicking them in the head when they’re standing up. Unless the attacker has actively surrendered, run away or is physically incapable of continuing the attack, the victim can quite reasonably assume that if they allow their attacker back to their feet they will continue to attack.
So, what am I supposed to do if a 200lbs man jumps out and flashes at me in an underpass or I get grabbed from behind? Well, I can reasonable assume he intends to rape me. I’m under no obligation to run and probably wouldn’t get very far if I did. And I’d much rather stab him several times in the nuts with a knife or pair of scissors (hopefully chopping it off in the process) and take my chances in court, than I would running in high heals, begging for mercy, or trying to put him in a dick lock with my vag. What about you?
steph
amie
rob
“But a bird ain’t going to wear a weapon on her hip, it’s too visible and impractical. Besides in situations where she is more likely to be attacked, she’s better off with her hand on or hovering over her weapon.”
True..thats why I say better a purse than not at all.
However that last part …”Besides in situations where she is more likely to be attacked, she’s better off with her hand on or hovering over her weapon”…is a problem IMO. It assumes the person is always (or even more often than not) going to know when they are “likely” to be attacked and have their hand on the gun. When that situation happens, yes it is an advantage. But many times the person isnt going to get “advanced notice”.
In LE we have something we call the “tueller drill” ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill ), an officer with an exposed holstered weapon has difficulty drawing and reacting to a person he is looking at and aware of if he is within 21′…how much more difficult would it be if the weapon was in a bag?
I stand by my assertation that “body carry” of some sort is better than purse/bag carry…all things being equal.
But if a woman is unlikely to waist/body carry then by all means purse carry. Just be aware of the limitations is all Im saying.
I wouldn’t want to take away anyones desire to defend themselves, but as you say 200lb versus 112lb just isn’t a fair fight.
Stay Safe Steph , Amie, and Rob
@Rezbi
Hey, I’m an armed and dangerous, 5′3″ Sicilian-Irish, Catholic, brunette… I’m fun… as long as they keep their hands to themselves.
Tgaze
I agree with your general points but the best piece of advice that most people won’t take is don’t get drunk, it doesn’t take much alcohol to reduce your stamina, endurance, coordination, speed and reflexes.
Rezbi
Nah, not at all. Steph’s asked (told) me to write a post on self defence tomorrow, tell us what you think.
Tgace
Strapping on the strong side hip on the outside was my preference when I was bodyguarding too, but it’s not the most discreet, comfortable or practical of places to carry a weapon for everyday use. For everyday use I prefer a small holdall. But a bird ain’t going to wear a weapon on her hip, it’s too visible and impractical. Besides in situations where she is more likely to be attacked, she’s better off with her hand on or hovering over her weapon.
hey you’re free to carry however you wish. just my professional opinion.
purse carry only works if you are aware of the threat. period. if you are “jumped” your screwed.
better a purse than not at all.
This womans blog talks about purse carry from a womans perspective.
http://www.corneredcat.com/Holster/purse.aspx
@ tgace
Both my brothers are bodyguards and I was trained by a firearms instructor in the Carabinieri, they all say that for a woman, having a weapon in your hand in the purse is preferable to on the body if you’re attacked because my hand is already on the weapon, my draw time is faster, and I can just shoot you through the purse. I can easily open my car door with one hand too.
But if you’re talking about having the Beretta just swinging about in the purse, then I agree with you but that’s not what we’re talking about.
PS-I would want a child coming across a gun in a womans purse either. Personal “on the body” carry is the most secure and safe carry.
Im not a fan of shoulder holsters except for specific concealment issues. Same thing for ankle holsters and “deep concealment” (inside the pants) holsters. Im talking about waist holsters. By far the best choice.
Again. Better the purse than not at all, sometimes a woman may be dressed so as to preclude any other carry. I can understand that. But I stand by my opinion. If you have the option, carry it “on you”, along with at least on spare magazine/reload. Any system where the weapon is directly “on you” is superior to carrying it in a bag, purse, wallet etc.
The purse can be dropped, taken or left behind accidentally. Unless there is a designed holster in the purse you are not guaranteed a positive grip on the weapon. That will wind up costing you precious seconds in getting it out of the purse. In addition, considering that the purse is a target for thieves/criminals, do you want him running off with your gun too?
If you are jumped by suprise you will not be able to get a gun out of a purse. Guaranteed. Surf the internet for the “21 foot rule” and see what you find.
Just the opinion of a guy who carries a gun for a living.
@ tgace
I disagree, gun concealment purses are better than a shoulder holster, and even if you don’t have a specifically designed gun concealment purse, you can put the gun in a separate compartment in a holster.
@ Rob at #30
Did it sound like I wuz whingeing?
Nah. It’s cool.
@ amie
“I jus carry a switchblade and knuckle duster in my pocket.”
Bet you’re a fun date.
I understood you. The problem is you cant keep the gun in your hand all the times. That can be a good idea if you are walking through a danger area, and believe that an attack is imminent, but if you have to take your hand out to open a door or unlock a vehicle and you are attacked, you will not be able to get a good firing grip on it again. The holster keeps a gun on your person in the same position at all times, it provides security and prevents it being taken away from you. It also presents the weapon in a consistent grip position so that you can access it much faster under pressure than trying to remove it from a purse.
Gun carry has a number of issues related to it; your clothing style, how concealed you need the weapon to be, weapon size are a few. A purse carry or an ankle holster MAY be the only (and therefore best) choice you have, however as a rule of thumb waist holstering is the best all around option.
I’m talking about having your hand on the gun in your purse, with the zipper undone so you can draw and fire. You know like you’re walking down the street with a gun in your hand. Anyways that was what I was taught.
But I don’t carry a firearm. I wanna though. I jus carry a switchblade and knuckle duster in my pocket.
@ Heather
I normally take someone on my dates, it ain’t very smart being alone with a guy who wants to do me. Jus in case.
DeBecker is an “anti”. I know that women dont like to wear waist holsters due to the limitations on clothing styles and while having one in your purse is better than not having one at all, the odds of getting to it in a surprise attack are slim. If you are aware and can id a threat and get you hand on it, that can work, but not having the handgun “on” you is a liability. A purse can be knocked out of you hand, zippered closed, left behind and so on. So better in the purse than not at all but BEST if on your person.
@ tgace
Sounds a good book. What’s he say on firearms?
I agree with all of them things you said except the gun in a purse. I was told to do that cause you can have your hand on a gun in your purse.
My “professional opinion” such as it is:
-Stay in the best shape you can.
-Be alert and aware of your surroundings
-Be aware of “threat indicators” (refer to that DeBecker book)
-Study a physical defense system that focuses on gross motor skills and simple techniques.
-Carry a weapon if you can. But having buried in a purse or pocket when you get jumped will do you no good. Awareness, preparation and a plan are key
-Have a plan. Think through scenarios ahead of time.
-Stay away from dangerous places and dangerous people.
A book I cannot suggest enough to women regarding self-defense is “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker. I have a post on my blog about it:
http://tgace.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/the-gift-of-fear/
He is a threat assessment expert who wrote a great book about assessing people to determine their threat level to you. His opinions on firearms isnt to my taste, but other than that I think he is spot on.
Rezbi
I agree and btw I was only talking about the industry in general, I wasn’t trying to mug you off. I’m not even anti martial arts, some martial artists do pad work and bag work, and spar full contact but you know what I’m saying about the industry. It’s full of people who can’t fight so they come out with a load of pacifist bollocks like demonweed.
@ adam
A hair pin could be an effective weapon but I’d rather take my chances with a a sharp pair of scissors in the UK or a beretta in Italy.
@Steph
Or you could just stick a big knitting needle in your hair.
Take it out at the right moment.
@ Rezbi
I completely agree, but I’d rather take my chances with a weapon than without, and I think that it isn’t difficult or burdensome to carry a weapon in situations where you might be attacked. There is obviously a question of legality but it is not illegal for a girl to carry a pair of scissors.
@ demonweed
“If we lived in a society where attacks were routinely initiated at the slightest suspicion of danger, all useful social order would give way to a nightmare of random violence, blood feuds, and gang warfare.”
That would be a problem of people in general were idiots or just looking for trouble.
Fortunately, the idiots are the ones we defend against.
The average guy or gal in the street is not a moron and has more than a semblance of common sense.
So that kinda negates that argument.
@ Steph
I agree with you, assuming you have a weapon on you.
If someone is trying got kill you, you have every right to defend yourself, and do unto them before they do to you.
My comments were really general as the average woman in this country doesn’t carry a knife or gun.
@ Rob
I agree with your point on wrestling and boxing.
That’s why what I teach has elements of everything and anything that works.
I wouldn’t even call what I do a martial art, because it’s not an art.
It’s just designed to destroy anyone who wants to try any shit.
There’s one thing everyone should do first when learning to fight, and that is to learn to hit ‘Bloody Hard’.
Rezbi, I agree with you on preemption, arming yourself with anything available and ending a fight as quickly as possible, but the problem I have with self-defence/self protection industry (and I’m not have a go at you here) is that most the instructors have never had a row on the cobbles. Personally, for unarmed combat, I don’t think you can beat wrestling and boxing because even though there are rules, you learn to fight. You don’t learn that in most self-defence classes.
Amie…
"Anyways, I carry a knife and knuckle duster if I go out on my own."A girl’s gotta carry protection when she goes on a date, huh?
Crotch lift sounds painful.
Steph: Everyone has the right to defend themselves against an attacker. Roberto.
@ rezbi
I completely agree if you’re unarmed, but if I carry a gun or knife to and from work or whenever I’m walking to my car, I can dramatically reduce my chances of ever being attacked when I’m unarmed, which also dramatically increases my chances of successfully defending myself if I am attacked. So why wouldn’t I carry a weapon when I’m doing that?
@ Demonweed
What you’ve said is exactly what I mean by “plain wrong, counter intuitive, or downright stupid,” frankly, advocating non-violent responses to rape, mugging and car jacking is idiotic. How many times do you think that a rapist has been deterred by a victim saying I’ve got AIDS or by saying “officer, over here”. I can’t even remember the last time I saw a copper on the beat in East London.
Flight is a non-option in most cases and cemetaries and hospitals are full of people who tried to talk their way out of a violent attack, all the evidence shows that this rarely ever works, whereas fighting back does.
Also, if CCTV was an effective deterrent against crime, violent crime wouldn’t be such a problem in London, which has more CCTV coverage than any other city.
I don’t think there is the slightest bit of controversy about the comparison between facing criminal charges or being killed. However, I do think there are consequences to any interpersonal violence that go beyond any legal system. The psychological consequences of even the most justified of killings may be no small thing. I would go so far as to contend that they should be no small thing.
If we lived in a society where attacks were routinely initiated at the slightest suspicion of danger, all useful social order would give way to a nightmare of random violence, blood feuds, and gang warfare. This world may have its share of lunatics who teach ineffective responses to attack. Yet it also has its share of lunatics who promote actually becoming an attacker.
Assuming trespass is not an issue, no one has an obligation to flee the scene. Yet often the flight to potentially helpful strangers (and CCTV, in places like London or Chicago) is much easier and safer than any alternative. Practically no one in a civilized modern place has sustained a pattern of violent criminal victimization without pathological avoidance of witnesses.
Then there is the voice. “Oh yeah! I haven’t had sex since I found out I have AIDS,” would probably deter a large majority of rapists. “Officers! Over here!” has a good chance of triggering any predator’s flight response. Mustering the confidence to trick, bluff, or negotiate may not be an easy thing, but neither is mustering the confidence to defeat someone who presumably has done a good deal more actual fighting. Equipped with that confidence, facing anyone short of a highly paid assassin, a bright and articulate target should have no trouble winning a battle of wits and thus never becoming a victim.
Engaging with violence frames a situation in terms favorable to individuals experienced in acting violently. It is possible to out-thug a thug. Yet is it possible to come away from such actions without a personal residue of thuggery? In decades of avid reading, I have yet to hear the tale of the venerable man or woman, reflective on the brink of a natural death, expressing a regret like, “I wish I had been more violent.”
No doubt some murder victims did have that thought in their final moments. Yet even in the face of an actual attack, I believe “how can I inflict the most harm?” is a much less useful question to address than “how can I endure the least harm?” Violence has a part to play in security. Yet if security is addressed exclusively through violence . . . well, I think we only need to look at the last seven years of U.S. foreign policy to see how well that works, even with the best guns on Earth.
Okay, let’s assume just for a moment, you don’t happen to have a magnum .44 or Rambo knife handy in your pocket.
I teach self defense… well, actually self protection is a better description… although even that falls short.
Self defense makes it sound to reactive.
Anyway, what I teach is to be proactive… you know… hit before they hit you.
The last thing you want is to allow someone to grab you, and then try to get out of it with wist wocks.
And I agree with you – too many morons out there teach all that crap.
The moment you even suspect something is gonna happen, you don’t wait.
You hit ‘em, and you hit ‘em hard… with anything… a makeshift weapon; your feet; your hands; whatever you have available.
And you hit them where it makes a bloody difference.
Stuff the consequences: Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
@ George
Is that an optional extra? Like Rob, I’d prefer a gun to a flame thrower. The same guy markets personal flame throwers too but I think that might be a bit cumbersome walking down the street.
@ Rob
I agree, even in the UK where it’s illegal to carry a weapon for self defence, a girl can always justify having a pair of scissors in her handbag or coat pocket.
@ mmk080
Thanks.
What I meant by the “dick lock with my vag”, is that for all the good it would do me trying to put a rapist nearly twice my size in a wrist or arm lock, I might as well try and lock his dick in my vagina, and that’s what would happen: he would rape me.
@ Ros
If I had to break a heel on a pair of Christian Louboutin sling backs, he better be dead!
@ Heather
I can take down bigger guys in wrestling with moves like a single leg, double, crotch lift, inside trip or back heel and I think I could beat the crap out of most guys the same sorta size but not if they’re 90 freaking kilos, that’s Rob’s size. Anyways, I carry a knife and knuckle duster if I go out on my own.
@ Ros
Yeah, really lol
Ooh, I think I see another use for killer heels!
(Even when it’s one in the morning, and my feet have given up on them!)
Ric, I agree mate, Queensbury rules don’t apply, if he’s on the deck stamp on his head because if he’s sparked out he ain’t getting up – job done, nice one, walk away.
Too right, a mugger, rapist or carjacker ain’t looking for a straightner, they’re tooled up and they ain’t got your best interests at heart. Shoot them or bury a blade in their groin, throat or gut and walk away.
steph 5 -
You melt my heart, love!
“…or trying to put him in a dick lock with my vag.” Yup, that would very much teach him a lesson lol
I totally agree with you though. Locking his dick with your vagina seems counter-intuitive. You should not only kick him when he is down, but do all that you can to get out of a situation where you feel your life is under threat. Use any weapons you’ve got, it’s all fair game in my opinion when the fair reasonable assumption is, he is going to cause grievous bodily harm to you.
There are some sick people out there. how can any man get excited in those situations? it is disgusting.
First time commentor, really enjoy your posts. Keep it up!
George, the blaster would be a good deterrent for traffic wardens but I’ll stick with the Beretta Px4 Storm, besides most carjackings happen when you’re getting in or out of the motor.
On the subject of carjacking, what do people here think of the South African “Blaster“?
@ Ric
I completely agree, you would be literally risking your life if you assume anything less, unless it was an optimistic young blonde, 51kg Siciliana, who flashed you.
@ Heather
Exactly, if I’m attacked I want a Beretta in my hand, and if not I want a sword, knife, pair of scissors, stun gun, heavy torch or something in my hand to defend myself. You’ve heard of the silver ring thing, Amie prefers the silver chastity knife thing.
I’m just under 51kg, which is about 112lbs. So I’ve gained about 2lbs. And yes heather I eat (you sound like my Mama), I’ve go to the gym regualrly and I’m quite petite.
So when did you gain the four pounds?
As for the self-defense thing, I figure if someone is going to attack me I have to assume they mean lethal harm and I fully intend to respond in kind until the sonofabitch stops moving. But of course I don’t have to worry about the high heels or the rapish aspect (unless the attacker has a weird thing about raping older men or is an optimistic young woman). I think you’re on target if you’re advocating a full-blown, all-out retaliation. And a loud one, too. As for kicking him when he’s down, definitely. You’re not safe until he stops moving.
See, this is why I think we should all have the right to carry a firearm. You could point it at a flasher and say “put it away or lose it buddy.”
A dick lock with your vag. Funny
Really though, I don’t think I could do those self defense moves on a guy. Do you think Amie could?
A 114lbs. Geez, do you even eat?